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daughter making false allegations to police and SW
  • My 11 year old daughter has recently been diagnosed with high functioning autism. The area we live in does not diagnose PDA. She has made allegations against me and her dad and as a result she and our younger daughter have been removed into local authority care even though there was no attempt to check out the veracity of the allegations. There will be a court case shortly. All the allegations she has made are absolutely false. She lives in harry potter land and has many times in the past made up stories about friends at school having done things to her etc and huge involved tales about things that have happened that I have totally believed and then found out later that they were completely made up. There's often a common factor in the tales in that she is the hero who saves the day or acts in a brave or praiseworthy way. I really don't think she is lying as such - she seems to truly believe what she says and she acts things out in a fully realistic way. This has culminated with me being interviewed yesterday by the police about things she says I did to my younger daughter. The allegations are really bad and very serious and utterly untrue. So, two questions: is this a PDA behaviour? And can anyone give me any advice/pointers? I'm so desperately scared and worried.
  • Holly59
    Posts: 1,265

    My 11 year old daughter has recently been diagnosed with high functioning autism. The area we live in does not diagnose PDA. She has made allegations against me and her dad and as a result she and our younger daughter have been removed into local authority care even though there was no attempt to check out the veracity of the allegations. There will be a court case shortly. All the allegations she has made are absolutely false. She lives in harry potter land and has many times in the past made up stories about friends at school having done things to her etc and huge involved tales about things that have happened that I have totally believed and then found out later that they were completely made up. There's often a common factor in the tales in that she is the hero who saves the day or acts in a brave or praiseworthy way. I really don't think she is lying as such - she seems to truly believe what she says and she acts things out in a fully realistic way. This has culminated with me being interviewed yesterday by the police about things she says I did to my younger daughter. The allegations are really bad and very serious and utterly untrue. So, two questions: is this a PDA behaviour? And can anyone give me any advice/pointers? I'm so desperately scared and worried.



    Hi,
    I am so sorry to hear of your situation . We have had a few similar cases recently.

    http://www.pdasociety.org.uk/forum#/discussion/comment/28673

    I hope reading this information will help. The advise Webb gave is very important, you must get specialist legal advice and be extremly careful if a SW is involved.

    The last posting on the original link is extremly important. The information comes from Leading expects in their field.

    Pat xx
  • PlanetAutism
    Posts: 2,641

    "She lives in harry potter land and has many times in the past made up stories about friends at school having done things to her etc and huge involved tales about things that have happened that I have totally believed and then found out later that they were completely made up."



    I could almost have written that paragraph about our younger daughter who is a similar age. She too lives in fantasy worlds and thinks she is various characters and I too have believed all sorts she has told me has happened in school, because she sounded so genuine and plausible. And that's the scary thing, they do. But I have later found out that things were not true or were her really distorted version of events. Yet I have contacted the school asking why they allowed certain things to happen or did certain things, trying to protect her and found they had a completely different version to tell. Even in her new school, she insisted something happened recently which the school told her she had misunderstood. So like you say, it's not always outright lies (although they happen too) but seriously skewed perceptions of what's happened or what people meant. Social workers have no autism training and even less PDA training and instead of looking at logic and making the right enquiries, they assume the worst immediately and rush into action. I find it incredible that not only have they removed your children so quickly but that they have applied to the courts. It's quite ridiculous not to look into the child's neurology and perceptions and evidence before leaping in like that.

    I am liaising with a researcher about doing an article and some research on this exact issue. It doesn't help you now though I know. Just so sorry this has happened to you. There but for the grace of God go any of us.
  • PlanetAutism
    Posts: 2,641
    Another thing to bear in mind, is PDAers can be very vengeful and something really small can set off this need for revenge and lying. You often won't even know what the perceived wrong is you are supposed to have done. Youngest had a massive meltdown because I bought her some socks with designs on. That will be perceived as an offence and will be raised as a reason to 'hate' me for ages. So when you add on the difficulty these children have with understanding consequences, difficulties with controlling behaviour and theory of mind, it's a perfect storm for an awful situation such as you have right now. And they often have no remorse, or don't show it if they do. Like Pat says, you need an expert solicitor who has dealt with autism cases before. Try the firm that wrote this article: http://www.hcbgroup.com/site/blog/education_blog/parents-face-new-obstacle-for-sen-support

    You could also contact Jan at this page as she has contacts: https://www.facebook.com/PPPC.UK
  • Thank you so much for all of this. I will follow up all the links you suggest. What a relief to find that someone understands this. Any time I try to make the SW understand how things are for my older daughter they say I'm limiting her and stereotyping her and "clinging to the label of autism" as an excuse for what they see as the result of my bad parenting. They will not hear it.
  • Holly59
    Posts: 1,265

    Thank you so much for all of this. I will follow up all the links you suggest. What a relief to find that someone understands this. Any time I try to make the SW understand how things are for my older daughter they say I'm limiting her and stereotyping her and "clinging to the label of autism" as an excuse for what they see as the result of my bad parenting. They will not hear it.




    https://www.facebook.com/PlanetOughtism/

    PlanetAutism has posted about this issue on her FB page yesterday .She is liaising with a Researcher about a possible article.

    The implications are massive to both families and the person involved. It's need top priority research.

    http://www.help4psychology.co.uk/expertwitness.html

    There are specialists who understand these issues and can act on behalf of parents to give evidence .

    So much training to do throughout the system.
    Pat xx
  • PlanetAutism
    Posts: 2,641

    Thank you so much for all of this. I will follow up all the links you suggest. What a relief to find that someone understands this. Any time I try to make the SW understand how things are for my older daughter they say I'm limiting her and stereotyping her and "clinging to the label of autism" as an excuse for what they see as the result of my bad parenting. They will not hear it.



    Perhaps the SW needs to be reminded that parents are the experts in their own children. The parents raised that child from birth and know all their quirks, foibles, difficulties, traits etc. The parents spend their whole time outside of school hours or time their child might be with a friend (which is often a lot less than normal with an autistic child), with that child. So the parent is massively better placed to know that child and why they say and do certain things.

    SWs are glorified administrators, they are not psychologists, doctors or clinicians of any sort. They like to think they are a jack of all trades but they aren't even that.

    The most damaging thing is their lack of awareness and understanding of the autistic neurology. Perhaps say to the social worker, "Would you expect to be asked to give a clinical psychology report?" because of course the answer would be no, then why does the SW think they are in any way qualified to say why a child has done a certain thing, most especially when they have a neurodevelopmental condition which means their brain is wired differently to a neurotypical brain.

    Even typical children lie. The other thing is, the majority of mental illness starts in childhood. So a SW is totally unqualified to comment.

    You should point out to the SW that stating the facts about your daughter being autistic is not limiting her, it is stating a medical diagnosis. That this medical diagnosis governs the way your child sees the world. Ask her if she has ever read the diagnostic criteria for ASD! That this medical diagnosis is a communication disorder! Ask how on earth they expect to see typical communication and behaviours in a child with such a condition. Tell them that you mean no disrespect but that they are simply unqualified to comment and produce evidence from the links. Perhaps put it in writing, non-emotionally, factually and calmly. Point out what they appear to be dismissing, which is factual and vital evidence and how concerned you are at this. Point out that any child protection investigation has to be neutral and balanced.
  • PlanetAutism
    Posts: 2,641
    This is the law, take back your power by not hesitating to point out in writing any laws they have breached:

    https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/419595/Working_Together_to_Safeguard_Children.pdf

    "46. The social worker should analyse all the information gathered from the enquiry stage of the assessment, including from a young carer’s, parent carer’s or non-parent carer’s assessment, to decide the nature and level of the child’s needs and the level of risk, if any, they may be facing."

    "46. The social work manager should challenge the social worker’s assumptions as part of this process.”

    "44.A high quality assessment is one in which evidence is built and revised throughout the process. A social worker may arrive at a judgement early in the case but this may need to be revised as the case progresses and further information comes to light. It is a characteristic of skilled practice that social workers revisit their assumptions in the light of new evidence and take action to revise their decisions in the best interests of the individual child.



    A useful comment by the president of the family division, Lord Justice Munby: "the local authority, is the servant of those in need of its support and assistance, not their master".
  • PlanetAutism
    Posts: 2,641
    You know what's so scary about this too? Your daughter has only recently been diagnosed. Imagine if she still didn't have her diagnosis. So many autistic girls are misdiagnosed or undiagnosed, imagine any family with an undiagnosed ASD/PDA child in this situation, there wouldn't even be any clinical evidence as to the child's behaviours. It makes you wonder how many families have wrongfully lost their children due to this. It's been said on the forum before, about how many autistic and ADHD children are in the care system, they are over-represented. At least some of the time it has to have been due to such false allegations having been made by such a child. Other times due to their condition being misrepresented as signs of abuse or neglect by professionals and other times the family failing to cope due to lack of appropriate support.
  • PlanetAutism
    Posts: 2,641
    This firm of solicitors deals solely in SEN: http://www.specialeducationalneeds.co.uk/ they might only do the educational side but they are likely to know of a firm which does special needs in the family law area if so.
  • Are you able to say which area of the country you are from, just roughly, we are from the South and going through much the same ordeal.
  • Thank you everyone. I can't tell you how good it is to finally connect with people who know what this is like. johnwyer01, I am in the NE of Scotland in Moray. It seems like one of the very worst LAs for autism awareness and provision.
  • Holly59
    Posts: 1,265

    Thank you everyone. I can't tell you how good it is to finally connect with people who know what this is like. johnwyer01, I am in the NE of Scotland in Moray. It seems like one of the very worst LAs for autism awareness and provision.



    Add Scottish Borders in that list

    . As I said in Parliament" when Sick Kids did not recognise type of Autism, Asbergers and PDA it's time to worry" .Still don't have a full diagnosis for both boys.

    Inverness is poor as well by all accounts. Some of the horror stories from Edinburgh beggars belief. PDA is an American type of behaviour was one of the latest.

    Pat

    http://www.inverness-courier.co.uk/News/Complaint-over-care-for-severely-autistic-daughter-15042016.htm

    http://www.inverness-courier.co.uk/News/Autistic-adults-in-Inverness-and-Highlands-waiting-years-for-help-they-deserve-15052015.htm

    http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/scots-child-handcuffed-school-three-7278998

    http://www.pressreader.com/uk/the-press-and-journal-inverness/20161109/281625304873140

    http://chrysmuirheadwrites.blogspot.co.uk/2015/06/fiona-sinclair-autism-rights-articles.html

    http://www.autism.org.uk/~/media/nas/documents/extranet/autism-library/magazines-articles-and-reports/reports/our-reports/autism in scotlands schools crisis or challenge full report.ashx

    Just a few links from Scotland.

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