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daughter making false allegations to police and SW
  • My 11 year old daughter has recently been diagnosed with high functioning autism. The area we live in does not diagnose PDA. She has made allegations against me and her dad and as a result she and our younger daughter have been removed into local authority care even though there was no attempt to check out the veracity of the allegations. There will be a court case shortly. All the allegations she has made are absolutely false. She lives in harry potter land and has many times in the past made up stories about friends at school having done things to her etc and huge involved tales about things that have happened that I have totally believed and then found out later that they were completely made up. There's often a common factor in the tales in that she is the hero who saves the day or acts in a brave or praiseworthy way. I really don't think she is lying as such - she seems to truly believe what she says and she acts things out in a fully realistic way. This has culminated with me being interviewed yesterday by the police about things she says I did to my younger daughter. The allegations are really bad and very serious and utterly untrue. So, two questions: is this a PDA behaviour? And can anyone give me any advice/pointers? I'm so desperately scared and worried.
  • Holly59
    Posts: 1,407

    My 11 year old daughter has recently been diagnosed with high functioning autism. The area we live in does not diagnose PDA. She has made allegations against me and her dad and as a result she and our younger daughter have been removed into local authority care even though there was no attempt to check out the veracity of the allegations. There will be a court case shortly. All the allegations she has made are absolutely false. She lives in harry potter land and has many times in the past made up stories about friends at school having done things to her etc and huge involved tales about things that have happened that I have totally believed and then found out later that they were completely made up. There's often a common factor in the tales in that she is the hero who saves the day or acts in a brave or praiseworthy way. I really don't think she is lying as such - she seems to truly believe what she says and she acts things out in a fully realistic way. This has culminated with me being interviewed yesterday by the police about things she says I did to my younger daughter. The allegations are really bad and very serious and utterly untrue. So, two questions: is this a PDA behaviour? And can anyone give me any advice/pointers? I'm so desperately scared and worried.



    Hi,
    I am so sorry to hear of your situation . We have had a few similar cases recently.

    http://www.pdasociety.org.uk/forum#/discussion/comment/28673

    I hope reading this information will help. The advise Webb gave is very important, you must get specialist legal advice and be extremly careful if a SW is involved.

    The last posting on the original link is extremly important. The information comes from Leading expects in their field.

    Pat xx
  • PlanetAutism
    Posts: 2,791

    "She lives in harry potter land and has many times in the past made up stories about friends at school having done things to her etc and huge involved tales about things that have happened that I have totally believed and then found out later that they were completely made up."



    I could almost have written that paragraph about our younger daughter who is a similar age. She too lives in fantasy worlds and thinks she is various characters and I too have believed all sorts she has told me has happened in school, because she sounded so genuine and plausible. And that's the scary thing, they do. But I have later found out that things were not true or were her really distorted version of events. Yet I have contacted the school asking why they allowed certain things to happen or did certain things, trying to protect her and found they had a completely different version to tell. Even in her new school, she insisted something happened recently which the school told her she had misunderstood. So like you say, it's not always outright lies (although they happen too) but seriously skewed perceptions of what's happened or what people meant. Social workers have no autism training and even less PDA training and instead of looking at logic and making the right enquiries, they assume the worst immediately and rush into action. I find it incredible that not only have they removed your children so quickly but that they have applied to the courts. It's quite ridiculous not to look into the child's neurology and perceptions and evidence before leaping in like that.

    I am liaising with a researcher about doing an article and some research on this exact issue. It doesn't help you now though I know. Just so sorry this has happened to you. There but for the grace of God go any of us.
  • PlanetAutism
    Posts: 2,791
    Another thing to bear in mind, is PDAers can be very vengeful and something really small can set off this need for revenge and lying. You often won't even know what the perceived wrong is you are supposed to have done. Youngest had a massive meltdown because I bought her some socks with designs on. That will be perceived as an offence and will be raised as a reason to 'hate' me for ages. So when you add on the difficulty these children have with understanding consequences, difficulties with controlling behaviour and theory of mind, it's a perfect storm for an awful situation such as you have right now. And they often have no remorse, or don't show it if they do. Like Pat says, you need an expert solicitor who has dealt with autism cases before. Try the firm that wrote this article: http://www.hcbgroup.com/site/blog/education_blog/parents-face-new-obstacle-for-sen-support

    You could also contact Jan at this page as she has contacts: https://www.facebook.com/PPPC.UK
  • Thank you so much for all of this. I will follow up all the links you suggest. What a relief to find that someone understands this. Any time I try to make the SW understand how things are for my older daughter they say I'm limiting her and stereotyping her and "clinging to the label of autism" as an excuse for what they see as the result of my bad parenting. They will not hear it.
  • Holly59
    Posts: 1,407

    Thank you so much for all of this. I will follow up all the links you suggest. What a relief to find that someone understands this. Any time I try to make the SW understand how things are for my older daughter they say I'm limiting her and stereotyping her and "clinging to the label of autism" as an excuse for what they see as the result of my bad parenting. They will not hear it.




    https://www.facebook.com/PlanetOughtism/

    PlanetAutism has posted about this issue on her FB page yesterday .She is liaising with a Researcher about a possible article.

    The implications are massive to both families and the person involved. It's need top priority research.

    http://www.help4psychology.co.uk/expertwitness.html

    There are specialists who understand these issues and can act on behalf of parents to give evidence .

    So much training to do throughout the system.
    Pat xx
  • PlanetAutism
    Posts: 2,791

    Thank you so much for all of this. I will follow up all the links you suggest. What a relief to find that someone understands this. Any time I try to make the SW understand how things are for my older daughter they say I'm limiting her and stereotyping her and "clinging to the label of autism" as an excuse for what they see as the result of my bad parenting. They will not hear it.



    Perhaps the SW needs to be reminded that parents are the experts in their own children. The parents raised that child from birth and know all their quirks, foibles, difficulties, traits etc. The parents spend their whole time outside of school hours or time their child might be with a friend (which is often a lot less than normal with an autistic child), with that child. So the parent is massively better placed to know that child and why they say and do certain things.

    SWs are glorified administrators, they are not psychologists, doctors or clinicians of any sort. They like to think they are a jack of all trades but they aren't even that.

    The most damaging thing is their lack of awareness and understanding of the autistic neurology. Perhaps say to the social worker, "Would you expect to be asked to give a clinical psychology report?" because of course the answer would be no, then why does the SW think they are in any way qualified to say why a child has done a certain thing, most especially when they have a neurodevelopmental condition which means their brain is wired differently to a neurotypical brain.

    Even typical children lie. The other thing is, the majority of mental illness starts in childhood. So a SW is totally unqualified to comment.

    You should point out to the SW that stating the facts about your daughter being autistic is not limiting her, it is stating a medical diagnosis. That this medical diagnosis governs the way your child sees the world. Ask her if she has ever read the diagnostic criteria for ASD! That this medical diagnosis is a communication disorder! Ask how on earth they expect to see typical communication and behaviours in a child with such a condition. Tell them that you mean no disrespect but that they are simply unqualified to comment and produce evidence from the links. Perhaps put it in writing, non-emotionally, factually and calmly. Point out what they appear to be dismissing, which is factual and vital evidence and how concerned you are at this. Point out that any child protection investigation has to be neutral and balanced.
  • PlanetAutism
    Posts: 2,791
    This is the law, take back your power by not hesitating to point out in writing any laws they have breached:

    https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/419595/Working_Together_to_Safeguard_Children.pdf

    "46. The social worker should analyse all the information gathered from the enquiry stage of the assessment, including from a young carer’s, parent carer’s or non-parent carer’s assessment, to decide the nature and level of the child’s needs and the level of risk, if any, they may be facing."

    "46. The social work manager should challenge the social worker’s assumptions as part of this process.”

    "44.A high quality assessment is one in which evidence is built and revised throughout the process. A social worker may arrive at a judgement early in the case but this may need to be revised as the case progresses and further information comes to light. It is a characteristic of skilled practice that social workers revisit their assumptions in the light of new evidence and take action to revise their decisions in the best interests of the individual child.



    A useful comment by the president of the family division, Lord Justice Munby: "the local authority, is the servant of those in need of its support and assistance, not their master".
  • PlanetAutism
    Posts: 2,791
    You know what's so scary about this too? Your daughter has only recently been diagnosed. Imagine if she still didn't have her diagnosis. So many autistic girls are misdiagnosed or undiagnosed, imagine any family with an undiagnosed ASD/PDA child in this situation, there wouldn't even be any clinical evidence as to the child's behaviours. It makes you wonder how many families have wrongfully lost their children due to this. It's been said on the forum before, about how many autistic and ADHD children are in the care system, they are over-represented. At least some of the time it has to have been due to such false allegations having been made by such a child. Other times due to their condition being misrepresented as signs of abuse or neglect by professionals and other times the family failing to cope due to lack of appropriate support.
  • PlanetAutism
    Posts: 2,791
    This firm of solicitors deals solely in SEN: http://www.specialeducationalneeds.co.uk/ they might only do the educational side but they are likely to know of a firm which does special needs in the family law area if so.
  • Are you able to say which area of the country you are from, just roughly, we are from the South and going through much the same ordeal.
  • Thank you everyone. I can't tell you how good it is to finally connect with people who know what this is like. johnwyer01, I am in the NE of Scotland in Moray. It seems like one of the very worst LAs for autism awareness and provision.
  • Holly59
    Posts: 1,407

    Thank you everyone. I can't tell you how good it is to finally connect with people who know what this is like. johnwyer01, I am in the NE of Scotland in Moray. It seems like one of the very worst LAs for autism awareness and provision.



    Add Scottish Borders in that list

    . As I said in Parliament" when Sick Kids did not recognise type of Autism, Asbergers and PDA it's time to worry" .Still don't have a full diagnosis for both boys.

    Inverness is poor as well by all accounts. Some of the horror stories from Edinburgh beggars belief. PDA is an American type of behaviour was one of the latest.

    Pat

    http://www.inverness-courier.co.uk/News/Complaint-over-care-for-severely-autistic-daughter-15042016.htm

    http://www.inverness-courier.co.uk/News/Autistic-adults-in-Inverness-and-Highlands-waiting-years-for-help-they-deserve-15052015.htm

    http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/scots-child-handcuffed-school-three-7278998

    http://www.pressreader.com/uk/the-press-and-journal-inverness/20161109/281625304873140

    http://chrysmuirheadwrites.blogspot.co.uk/2015/06/fiona-sinclair-autism-rights-articles.html

    http://www.autism.org.uk/~/media/nas/documents/extranet/autism-library/magazines-articles-and-reports/reports/our-reports/autism in scotlands schools crisis or challenge full report.ashx

    Just a few links from Scotland.
  • PlanetAutism
    Posts: 2,791
    https://www.facebook.com/PPPC.UK/posts/1758185444207465

    "Parents Protecting Children UK
    Yesterday at 05:43 ·

    Sometimes false allegations are made by teenage / young adult children who have been manipulated by a therapist or other third party to believe that a loving parent is the cause of their difficulties.

    The people with the most experience of helping such parents are the BRITISH FALSE MEMORY SOCIETY - they have a very useful website.
    This is from the BFMS website :

    Ten Golden Rules for the Falsely Accused

    These rules below are intended as a guide only, and intended to assist persons who have been falsely accused of a sexual offence. The rules and opinions expressed are strictly the writer’s own. The accusing person is referred to as ‘the complainant.’

    1. Do treat seriously any sexual allegation made against you, no matter how apparently insignificant, or absurd and no matter if it is not reported to the police.

    2. Do immediately record the fact of the complaint, that is, write down the detail, of sexual allegation made against you, as soon as you become aware of it, whether made to you directly, or to a third party. Include: Who, when, where, all the circumstances and details of the allegation(s).

    3. Do prepare a timeline and detailed background statement. This is essential, in the event of any future official complaint. Include: Your connection with/relationship to, ‘the ‘complainant’, identify where ‘the complainant’ fits into your family history (if you are related). Detail any fact that may be relevant to the allegation – family rows, therapeutic assistance known to have been sought by ‘the complainant.’ Identify any reason for a motive to make a false allegation. Identify any potential witnesses who may be able to speak of your good character AND ‘the complainant’s’ character, her relationship with you etc. The timeline should identify potentially significant life events and dates of births of family/significant persons.

    4. Do immediately see a solicitor who has a proven track record for handling sexual allegations – after the first complaint is made. Don’t take his or her word as to their experience as a guarantee of his/her expertise in the field. Expect to see a company prospectus naming cases that he/she has conducted. Don’t expect to see a 100% acquittal rate either. No matter how skilled your defence team, no-one can guarantee an acquittal. Place on record with the solicitor, the nature of the complaint against you and your denial. Give him/her your case timeline and background statement. This way, if a complaint is made in the future, the case is ready to go from the ‘off’ and you have a solicitor who is primed with knowledge of your case (being in receipt of the information supplied above) and ready to advise.

    5. Do instruct a solicitor immediately following arrest. If an arrest takes place, you will hopefully have already identified your solicitor (as discussed above). Falsely accused persons, often naively consider it unnecessary to seek the services of a solicitor, thinking everything will ‘blow over’ or ‘come right in the end’ after the police have listened to what you have to say. Be advised, it is foolish to ‘go it alone’. No matter how intelligent, articulate or worldly-wise you are, it is always advisable to have a solicitor with you.

    6. Do discuss your interview strategy with your solicitor – that is whether you are best advised to answer police questions, go ‘no comment’ in your interview or submit a pre-prepared statement. There is no hard and fast rule at this stage. Which course to take, depends upon the circumstances in each case. The writer’s opinion is that in a typical case, where the accused is a person of previous good character, that is a person with no prior criminal convictions, then provided:

    (i) there has been appropriate pre-interview disclosure to inform you sufficiently of the complaint and (ii) provided you are medically fit to answer, then it is preferable to have on record a denial from the outset and an open, genuine defence response. The interview will be tape-recorded. It may be played to a jury at a later stage and you/your solicitor are entitled to a copy of it. Be aware of the legal consequences of not answering police questions. Ensure you receive legal advice on this aspect before the interview.

    7. Do stay calm in interview. Listen to questions and take care with answers. If, because of the historical nature of the allegations your memory is unclear, then say so in the interview. Do not feel obliged to provide a firm answer to exploratory questions by the police interviewer that seek to probe family history, events and relationships. If you can’t remember, then say so. Frequently, accused persons are arrested with no prior warning, early in the morning, then taken to the police station and left alone in a police cell for a few hours. This course of conduct is entirely lawful. The psychological impact of this on your state of mind is obvious. You will feel alone and vulnerable. By the time of the first police interview several hours later, you will have one thought uppermost in your mind, that is, to get out of the police station. Don’t guess answers.

    8. Do inform your solicitor and police of any known health issues or psychological/psychiatric learning difficulties that either you or ‘the complainant’ suffer from. Let the solicitor determine if these issues are relevant or not to the conduct of your defence. It is important that your solicitor has all the information he/she requires about you AND ‘the complainant’ as soon as possible. These issues are of paramount importance. They may be critical to the interview or preparation of your future defence. Equally, your health or other issues may affect how you give evidence, or how the jury should be directed to approach it.

    9. Do be actively involved in the preparation of your defence. Don’t sit back and let things happen. Don’t bury your head in the sand. Assist yourself by assisting your solicitor. Limited funding constraints mean that solicitors do not have an infinite amount of time to spend on your case. Obtain a copy of the prosecution case (you are entitled to this) and make line-by-line comments for your solicitor who will in turn send these to counsel. Write objective comment and factual observations rather than repeating how awful you feel or how stupid the accusations are. Consider with your legal team if an expert report is required well in advance of trial.

    10. Do discuss and agree the future conduct of your trial. Identify the counsel whom your solicitor wishes to use as soon as possible. Ensure you meet your barrister well before the trial. Increasingly, higher court advocates (solicitors with rights of audience in the Crown Court) are conducting serious cases in the Crown Court. Whosoever is going to represent you at trial, ask for a resume or CV. You are also entitled to receive an Advice on Evidence and to a conference(s). Ensure you understand and agree how the advocate intends to present your defence well before trial, which witnesses will be called, the cross-examination of ‘the complainant’ and how/whether you will be likely to give evidence. A final decision may only be made at trial.

    This guide has been prepared for the BFMS by a helpful barrister.

    This article was originally published in the Newsletter of the British False Memory Society (Vol 20, No. 1 – October 2012)."

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